Old School Rogues

[doctor]

Hi everyone. I`m looking for some more advanced deck builds/tips for Rogues. I`m quite successful with this faction but still it would be nice to take a look at typical or optimal 40 card deck builds from the game popularity era. My goal is to finaly make one 40 card deck with 10 cards sideboard that would be prepared to face every other faction. Any hints would be nice.

[Axlotl]

Combat victory or data theft? Data theft probably works best.

I wasn't around when the game was on the shelves proper, only got into it a couple years later, but I can throw out some suggestions.

[doctor]

Mostly data theft but with some combat capability if needed. I use Good to Go as condition so all my weapons start with fletchette rounds, for characters i only miss Johner and Rogue Assasin, mostly i play Elgyn, Christie, Call, Hillard. I like the Vriess with ptv and shotgun option too, but it would require lot of card slots to use all his potential. I have Ripley 8 but i find her situational and probably only good against aliens.

[Axlotl]

That seems pretty solid already, pretty similar to some of the loadouts I run with.

Defensive Position works pretty well because with data theft you don't usually need to leave your locations - the opponent has to come to you, so you can reliably build around it. It'll affect the opponent too, but Rogues generally have the highest hit modifiers when you have Christie and Hillard in the mix.

Disarmament is pretty beastly with Christie and backstab/concealed weapon attacks, can do a pretty rude anti-item build by using Disarm with the Marksman/Lethals and Strong Arm Tactic with the others. Also opens up Flechette Rounds by removing any armor they might have.

I'd make sure to have a 2nd target for Disarmament, so either Johner or Ripley 8. The Item hate means you'd need some more dedicated Aliens hate, so Ripley 8 would fill that niche nicely. For either, access to a Long-Ranged Military Arms is nice too when combined with some movement control.

[doctor]

That`s my actual build for Contact scenario, some cards will be changed soon to make the cp costs not that much a problem.

Cargo Bay
AirLock

Good To Go (4x Flechette Rounds)

Elgyn + Collapsible Shotgun
Christie + Wrist Guns
Hillard + Collapsible Shotgun
Call + Zip Gun

Portable Data Drive x4
Hand Welder 

Pressure Doors x3

Let The Army Guys Deal x3
Retreat x3

Lock The Door x3
Not That Way x2 (waiting for 1 more)
Criminal Instinct x1 (waiting for 2 more)
The Area Is Secure x1 (waiting for 2 more)
Security Doors x3
Access Tunnel x3
Heat Of Battle
Dead End x2

Computer Center
Communication Center
Equipment Warehouse
Atmosphere Processor
Machine Shop
Operations

Purvis
Electronic Tech x2
Programmer

As soon as i get the missing cards like x3 of Quick Escape and the mentioned above i plan to remove cards like dead end as 2cp is a lot in a deck that needs cp in many moments. As You can see not much space for cards like Disarmament. I try to avoid low locations so no Alien Lab (can turn into flooded grave to easy, also has nothing that Rogues need). No space for any + to hit cards other then Cryminal Instinct (having two options in one card is always good). Let The Army Guys Deal + Retreat is nice but depending on two cards can be a problem so i plan to change it into Quick Escape as soon as i get the cards. Practicaly i build the deck as i was feeling the cards will fit it, still would love to compare with some actual Rogue decks from the game active times.

[Shaolin Yautja]

Don't forget about the hostage kidnapping victory condition with supporting characters. But the real advantage of having hostages is receiving a hand size bonus.

I have to say focusing on Data Theft is ideal, because unlike the other alternate win methods for the other factions you don't have to evacuate or be stopped and prevented from evacuating when downloading data tokens.

As for combat, I would believe that it's best if you are able to get early backstab attacks early in the game that hit successfully with little to no disruptions. Because once that happens you should be able to finish off the opponent's surviving characters.

But that might be different for multi faction games such as 3 players or more.

You also have Elgyn, which is should be a staple as he has the leader resource which gives you a hand size increase at the beginning of the game.

[doctor]

Hostage victory is too situational, practicaly it would require to enter Marines area just before they evacuate civilians (probably with access space) eliminate marines, grab the hostages and with Calling In The Favors simply evacuate by their Docking Bay...too card intensive in my view. As for Rogues and combat, that`s in my view last resort, avoid is the name of the game, building deck that would fit + to hit cards, + to dmg, dissarmament, strong arm tactics would leave realy not much space for anything else. 

[Shaolin Yautja]

I've double checked the Resurrection Supplement and rule book. Hostages are taken immediately if you search for and bring and non-Rogue supporting character in play. The hand size increase is the real reason you should have them in play above all else.


Thus that means you don't even need to capture them from a Marines player. :-D

Against Marines, kidnapping hostages to win can also become a liability because if they kill any of your Rogues while you have hostages in play it makes it easier for them to achieve a hostage liberation victory without having to actually evacuate any supporting characters. Because when they liberate hostages from you it counts as 2 supporting characters evacuated for them.



In contact scenario, you are required to have supporting characters in the deck and location deck isn't possible so it's something to be considered, but like I said take advantage of them mainly for the hand size bonus above all else.

In countdown scenario, they don't require supporting characters at all in the deck so it makes it easier to make it a data theft focused deck or an aggressive combat oriented strategy deck or maybe a hybrid of the two.

Overwatches and Somebody Wake Up Hicks would be best for aggro combat oriented decks. And since Rogues also have free attacks in movement round, this can be very effective and deadly.

The downside however, is all the prohibited weapons are short ranged so you must enter enemy characters' locations first before you can surprise attack them or you would need Long Range attack cards which may not be worth taking up additional space in the deck.

Also in Contact scenario, they limit the Rogues to have only 1 copy of EEV which would be a staple card for the hostages kidnapping victory condition.

Since you already have the area is secure which would greatly aid and combo well to prevent any enemy characters from trying to stop you from evacuating kidnapped hostages at pretty much any location with an EEV card without having to return to your starting Airlock location to evacuate them normally. The area is secure is excellent to prevent enemy characters from ever entering and moving through yoir locations.

Not that way is alternate card to supplement and back up this strategy but requires combat pool expenditure as a down side.

But I don't see such a restriction anywhere for Countdown scenario, thus Rogues can have 3 copies of EEV if hostage kidnapping is the primary focus of their deck for that scenario.

[doctor]

Yes i know what you mean. Problem is sticking civilians into rogue deck other than Contact scenario or the need for Avory G is not good at all. Having not concealed weapons is not worth the advantage of bigger hand size, that`s why i said that only logic of that would be to go to Marines, disarm them, grab their weapons and civies, and then instead of returning to Airlock, the use of Calling In the Favors to escape with their Docking Bay. Every oponent seeing Rogues with data tokens or civies tries to get them as fast as possible, and no rogue deck likes the aliens and pred fighting above rogues heads.

[Shaolin Yautja]

I don't really see much point of having Avery G. in the deck. Since he's a supporting character with the rogue resource so he does not count as a hostage thus you don't get an increase in hand size. And he could only be found at the Tavern or any Low location.

The hand size increase is just to help you reach important cards in the deck as soon as possible without having to discard more cards you have in hand that you may need later. I even thought about having sweep the area since you want to have those locations brought into play that allows you to download the data tokens as quickly as possible.

In contact you only need 12 data tokens transferred from the drives to your starting airlock location.

I almost forgot about Berserk and Somebody Wake Up Hicks. If you have those two cards that would greatly increase the rate of download of tokens altogether.

You could also use Evacuation to add the Hi-tech resource to either starting locations (airlock or cargo bay), and download earlier if it takes too long for you to draw those needed downloading locations. It says Marine restriction but the Marine restriction for premiere cards had been errata'd that unless the card's effect text specifies Marines, then Rogues or human faction players such as Rogues can also use them.

For most part you have the movement restrictions and control part down correctly with the Area is secure, Not That Way, Lock the Door. Those are vital to prevent enemy characters from engaging you aggressively.

You already have 4 supporting characters and non of them have rogue resource so they are hostages once brought into play, and that's all they really are there for as support. You would need 3 more supporting characters if kidnapping was the goal since it's 7 minimum in contact.

IIRC, the hand welder became a one time use item that creates a barrier with the power of 5 instead of an item that could be used over an over to create barriers.

[doctor]

Avery G can be used in Contact or Countdown as a 5th rogue (good with data drive) but yes as you said requires low location or tavern, in rogues case tavern can have some limited uses. As i mentioned my deck list is made for Contact, for other scenarios i completly remove civilians and i move many locations into the location deck. As for the whole rules supplement and change from Marine to Human that`s one chaos. Reminds me of that strange wording in scenarios (rogue start with 4 human rogue characters...so no scenario will allow Call to be played?). As for Hand Wealder, was the change only applied in countdown or was it general card change, as Hand Wealder change was under scenario special rules and it was mentioning that in Countdown hand walder has changed function to be a barrier? 

[doctordolemite]

I know it seems pretty basic but I use four rogue mercenaries with collapsible shotguns. I have 3 extra shotguns in my deck and one thermos gun. That way they all get +1 to hit and with three of them with flechette rounds and portable data drives they're set up.

[doctor]

That`s as i call them budget Rogues and as they never got a starter deck it`s a good thing. It`s solid with +1 to hit from character skill and still can pack a punch. I played like that for years (and having a good win ratio), even when i was a Marine player more till i got my first Call in a huge lot of cards from many card games in a deal. I was shocked to find her in the cards as i was expecting a huge box of commons and uncommons, typical fodder. As a fan of Rogues idea (not much of a fan of Ressurection film) and huge fan of Winona Ryder as actress getting a card of her was a huge wow, and for me as i love the games struggle i slowly switched to Rogues and found out that typical Hicks, Perez and band of randoms is boring and rogues are the thing i like.

It`s turning into a Rogue corner of forum

[Shaolin Yautja]

It's 4 Rogues main characters. The resurrection supplement did say 4 rogue humans, but I'm sure that was an error they forgot to correct. Otherwise, they should have made it 100% clear that Call can't be used in Contact scenario.

The other stuff on the resurrection supplement about premiere errata, hand welder and sentry gun changes:



I'm sure they changed the hand welder due to how good and broken it previously was in tournament settings before the barrier mechanics and errata that had been introduced.

[Shaolin Yautja]

Hey doc, how quickly are you able to bring the data drives into play? That is the most important variable when it comes to the data theft victory. The sooner you have the drives in play and having a way to download early without being disrupted the better. It seems like you would have to bring equipment warehouse in play as early as possible if you don't draw into the drives early in the game just so you can dig for them using equipment warehouse's effect. Maybe running 2 copies of equipment warehouse and 1 or 2 xopies of sweep the area could help you reach the drives somewhat faster?


In countdown you can simply hold onto locations like Operations in your hand and avoid playing them to slow down being connected to your opponent(s). Access Space, particular in aggression combat oriented decks will be a bad and tough match up though.

Having 3 copies of Somebody Wake Up Hicks would greatly help with downloading multiple tokens in a single turn and having Call would mean you don't have to worry much about disruptions from Malfunctions. So going by the resurrection supplement, that means Evacuation would be usable for both data theft and hostage kidnapping purposes. By using Evacuation and selecting Hi-Tech Resource, you can just get 4 data tokens in 1 turn or 8 data tokens within 2 turns if not disrupted and if you already have the drives out. Save those Area is secure and not that way if you ever become connected before you have downloaded at least 8 tokens.

You can also use evacuation and declare civilian resource and kidnap some staff workers as hostages or declare secure resource and kidnap some security guards too. But much more situational and risky if your opponent manages to connect to you and reach you early enough in the game. If they play defenseively however, the odds would then be greatly in your favor with this and not evem have to engage or confront their forces in any way at all.