Who here has seen "The Predator" (PREDATOR 4)?

[Shaolin Yautja]

If you already seen it, what do you all think of it? I'd have to say that nothing beats the original simply because when it's original is fresh and new and the expectations are generally lower. After seeing it, overall, I would say I enjoyed it and like it more than the last PREDATORS (Predator 3), and haven't decided if I'd like it more than Predator 2 yet. I'm gonna have to re-watch it at least a dozen times with deleted scenes and everything and then decide from there.

I'd have to say this is the most hilarious Predator movie ever, and you'd have to thank the rest of the guys, Keegan-Michael Key, being a well-known comedian, I'd expected this Predator movie to really not take itself all too seriously anyway. I'm pretty sure they all had lots of fun when they made this movie together.

The thing I really miss is the first person lock-on sequence of the Predator's Shoulder Cannon. They explained some of the plot holes as to "why" the Predators are after spines and skulls of the best, toughest and strongest prey in the galaxy, so that was interesting, explaining their true motives behind it. I don't to go into further details into it and spoil too much or any further though.

I also have to say, I really miss the Smart Disc from Predator 2, after AvP came out it's been Pred Shuriken after Shuriken from AvP, AvP Requiem, although I don't recall ever seeing it reused again in Predators. It's not that I don't like that weapon, but why not bring back the Smart Disc? Guess that was on the effects department. The new stuff and tech they have is even more powerful or overpowered than anything I've ever seen!

Well until next time guys.

[predfang]

I like it more than I thought I would. Not a fan of the bigger,badder Predator idea. If done properly P1,P2, AVPR, classic Pred is more than enough to carry a movie. I liked it more than Predators, but find myself hoping again, that if they go this route of intercene conflict, that the classic Preds get their revenge at some point against the Super/Upgraded Predators.

[Shaolin Yautja]

Sept 16, 2018 16:59:16 GMT -5 predfang said:

I like it more than I thought I would. Not a fan of the bigger,badder Predator idea. If done properly P1,P2, AVPR, classic Pred is more than enough to carry a movie. I liked it more than Predators, but find myself hoping again, that if they go this route of intercene conflict, that the classic Preds get their revenge at some point against the Super/Upgraded Predators.

It would be very important that Shane Black and Fred Dekker or any future writers and directors explain the Predator "civil war" or "clan war" between these "upgraded" Predators and the regular ones. Last time they pulled that out of the blue with Predators and is a complete plot hole. And it's just a mess. And leaves viewers wondering why that's happening? How come? Since when did that whole blood feud rivalry thing started to begin with?

I guess that is the direction they are going in.

You know what it reminds me of a bit?

It reminded me of that time in Mortal Kombat when the Lin Kuei Clan decided to "upgrade" their ninjas by automating them into cold soulless cyborgs. However, Sub-Zero is against this and had to escape and fought back against the very clan he fought for because it had betrayed him. He rebelled against his own clan's corrupt leadership's decision of "upgrading" regular Lin Kuei human ninjas into automated cyborg ninjas.

Maybe that's how it's going to be, or implied as for future Predator sequels, assuming there will even be any direct sequels after this one.

Maybe there is corruption of power of the Predator Elders and they decided they wanted their entire kind to be upgraded by any and all means necessary. Going from being warrior beings that adhere to a strict samurai like code of honor into assimilating the DNA of the best prey the universe has to offer to "upgrade" is largely inconsistent with established canon. They need to explain a back story. Maybe some evil ambitious Predators killed the Elder(s) and took absolute power and the leadership for himself or themselves and decided to implement an "upgrade" initiative for their entire kind or clan?

And then other Predators recognize this and realize the evil, the abuse and corruption in the highest ranks of their clan or kind. They decided to revolt, rebel, but knowing how dangerous it will be to go against the corrupt and oppressive leadership of their kind or clan, they know they need to escape.

And so they make their escape, because they had been betrayed by the very clan and leadership they had always fought for and been loyal to.

It would be like the Predators' own revolution.

So maybe that will help tie up the blood feud rivalry or faction war between Predators plot hole?

I mean how else did they come up with the idea that Predators all of sudden decided that upgrading is the next step?

It's certainly not a natural evolution thing, thus it is not right and is out of place of what Predators normally do, and since "The Fugitive" Predator escaped from all of this, it shows that he had an inner conscience about this and second thoughts. Now whether it is implied that he escaped because he did not want to become "upgraded" isn't 100 percent clear, but judging by the fact he stayed normal and regular, it could very likely be that he had rebelled against it and their kind or clan's leadership for implementing this.

By the way from what I've read, chronologically, "The Predator" takes place BEFORE Predators.

[Axlotl]

I thought the beginning up through the motel scene was great, I loved Fugitive, but then the rest was an indecipherable mess. I think the back half might be the worst thing in any of the cinematic franchises.

I'm including AVPR in there, at least I could follow where characters were in AVPR.

I think overall this belongs alongside AVP and AVPR in the "total dogshit" category. Predators was WAY better.

Top tier: Predator, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 Assembly Cut
Mid tier: A3, Alien Covenant, Predator 2, Predators
Low-mid tier: A:Res, Prometheus
Low tier: AvP, AvP:R, The Predator

[Shaolin Yautja]

Sept 20, 2018 19:48:27 GMT -5 Axlotl said:

I thought the beginning up through the motel scene was great, I loved Fugitive, but then the rest was an indecipherable mess. I think the back half might be the worst thing in any of the cinematic franchises.

I'm including AVPR in there, at least I could follow where characters were in AVPR.

I think overall this belongs alongside AVP and AVPR in the "total dogshit" category. Predators was WAY better.

Top tier: Predator, Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 Assembly Cut
Mid tier: A3, Alien Covenant, Predator 2, Predators
Low-mid tier: A:Res, Prometheus
Low tier: AvP, AvP:R, The Predator

The one thing that confused the hell out me at the end was the combat exosuit dubbed the "Predaator Killer". An anti-Predator weapon as it had been implied.

If the Fugitive Predator had uber powerful weapon from the beginning all along why bother escaping and running away at the beginning of the movie, instead of wearing his regular armor?

Why not just get in that armor at the beginning and take advantage of it and use it against the "Upgraded" Predator?

Perhaps, they made a mistake saying it was cargo that came from it's ship, but in actuality that "Predator Killer" was actually hidden and stashed away somewhere on that part of Earth the Fugitive Predator arrived in?

As I said before, from the looks of it they are trying to give back story to the whole Predator vs. Predator thing that started with Predators. Because as I said before that is one big fucking plot hole that they just tossed in there all of a sudden and didn't bother explain how come, why is this all of sudden happening, because it's a big continuity problem.

We've never ever seen Predators fight and kill their own kind in the first two films, so what the hell is going on behind why this is happening, they just never bothered to explain it thoroughly. In Predators, Nolan only said something about some blood feud going on between the Black Super Predators and that Classic Predator, implying there must be a Predator Clan Dispute or War, but that's about it.

As I made my hypothesis and theory is that there must be some sort of clan war, civil war or perhaps even a Predator revolutionary war going on which is why we are seeing it again in "The Predator."

And it's largely because they also didn't bother to explain how come and why the "Fugitive" isn't nor became an "upgraded" or "enhanced" Predator?

Is it because he had rebelled against their leadership for making it mandatory for all Predators to "upgrade" and therefore he had refused to become "upgraded" and decide to abandon his clan and thus he becomes a "Fugitive" and is marked for death because of that reason?

And if so then is that the only Predator that rebelled or are there more than one Predator that also didn't upgrade and is also completely against upgrading and refuse to become modified and enhanced?

As we can all agree that there are just way too many plot holes there already.

The "Upgraded" Predator kidnapping the kid is a huge inconsistency with the whole Predator's "Code Of Honor" we've witnessed in the second film and partially in the first film.

Predator's are not supposed to harm or attack anyone unarmed and helpless, because of "no sport". We've seen how the Predator in Predator 2 didn't cause any sort of harm or attack the kid at the graveyard. ("Want some candy?")

This obviously don't apply to "Outcasts" or "Bad Blood" Evil Predators.

And according to the movie's plot they are saying the way Predators upgrade themselves is by by collecting the best DNA of the best creatures and prey in the whole universe that has to offer by taking their spines and skulls, but then how come and why couldn't they just take and use blood samples instead of killing their prey? Can't they still take and gather enough DNA information from blood samples to upgrade? Or perhaps I'm missing something.

It's very unclear to me as to why the "Upgraded" even had to kidnap Rory when he could have just draw some blood samples from Rory with needles, etc. and take that DNA information back to their ship or home planet. They're so fucking advanced and yet they can't even do that or even think of that?

But as I said, perhaps the entire leadership of the Predators had been compromised, and thus their integrity, their honor, it's all gone down the drain.

There must have been a hostile takeover of the Predator's leadership by some bad and powerful corrupt Predator(s) that simply don't give a flying fuck about "honor", "respect" or integrity of their prey, and thus that is why we won't see any of that with that "Upgraded" Predator. And thus they only care about harvesting the best DNA of other life forms.

That seems to be the direction they want to story to move toward, and therefore implying that the "Bad" Predators plan a future invasion of Earth, whether it would be a full scale invasion or not, only time will tell, assuming they won't scrap everything and start over again.

[Axlotl]

There is no way this gets a sequel. Its not gonna happen.

[Shaolin Yautja]

Sept 20, 2018 21:54:22 GMT -5 Axlotl said:

There is no way this gets a sequel. Its not gonna happen.

If only Jim and John Thomas would come back and write a proper sequel since they were the original guys that did the first 2. And if only John McTiernan would come back, since he was the original director, although I heard he got into legal trouble and other problems thus that could be why it won't ever happen again, but then again, I may be wrong. I doubt Stephen Hopkins or Nimród Antal would come back though.

I wish Ridley Scott or James Cameron themselves would consider directing and writing and proper Predator sequel since they have the most and better consistency than all of the other writers and directors for these kind of franchises, but it's highly unlikely. Even right now, a proper sequel to follow up after Alien Covenant is unclear if it would happen or not, and then I heard there's also another merger between Disney and 20th Century Fox which will impact the outcome of the Alien and Predator franchises.

At this point, maybe if the writers of Predators, Alex Litvak and Michael Finch return and make a proper sequel or prequel to tie up those plot holes of Predators and explain how, when and why there was a blood feud or conflict between Predators I'll let things slide again. I actually wouldn't mind seeing Royce return. And I really would want them to bring back Dutch and Harrigan as well as supporting roles.

Clearly it shows that Fred Dekker and Shane Black aren't really good writers. It makes me wonder why didn't Shane Black try to get consulting from Jim and John Thomas and get them back involved in the franchise prior to working on this movie. Some things like you said they had right, but the second half did turn into a big fucking mess.

From the beginning when they announced "The Predator", I already knew it was gonna be loaded with humor and comedy unlike the other 3, which is why I walked in to the theaters with the lowest expectations ever since it really seemed like they just wanted to make it for the sake of making it for money and for fun.

Whereas compared to the first 3 all had a serious tones with very little to no humor and comedy thrown into the mix unlike this one.

I knew long ago than anything not written and made by the original director and writers usually will never measure up, thus it's absolutely true that "nothing ever surpasses the quality and freshness" of the original(s).

In the case with Predators, I'm mostly and greatly upset that they didn't make and release this first and then create AvP movies that are set in outer space planets that have an all jungle or wilderness setting background.

Because that to me had made me felt that I had completely been cheated and lied to by the studios, producers, directors, etc.'s excuses of how they couldn't properly make an AvP movie set in outer space from the very beginning.

When what had happened and was done in Predators clearly showed that they could have made an AvP movie with an outer space setting in the very first place instead of a modern day Earth setting. Which is why there's just always that big grudge I have against Predators and the AvP movies, they all guilty of fucking with the previously established canon and as well as the validity of the franchises.

Even if they had messed things up with AvP movies, as long as they were set in the future and/or outer space, which I find to be of most importance for consistency with the established canon of the franchise, then I'd have no grudges or ill feelings toward them in any way.

They could have done a futuristic Earth setting in the 2120s or anytime after which would still be fine. There doesn't need to even be Colonial Marines or anything either. It really shouldn't have cost them a huge fortune and neither should it be hard for them to do it. But it is what it is now.

I think the biggest problems that they had used to try to justify a modern day Earth setting for an AvP movie is because of the costs, and because we saw an "Alien Skull" in Predator 2, but that was clearly a mistake of what the directors and producers of Predator 2 had done.

And from what I heard it was meant to be an "inside joke" more than anything else. But it became a mistake being misconceived as "canon".

And I'm mot saying that "The Predator" isn't guilty of inconsistencies and messing with the previously established canon and validity of the franchise, because it also is guilty with so many plot holes and inconsistencies.

[predfang]

“Because that to me had made me felt that I had completely been cheated and lied to by the studios, producers, directors, etc.'s excuses of how they couldn't properly make an AvP movie set in outer space from the very beginning.”

This is a very good point. AVP should be set in space, preferably in the future, and with Colonial Marines. Predators showed us that that could have been done easily. So it was not money that prevented that from occurring, but incompetence, and a lack of imagination.

“I think the biggest problems that they had used to try to justify a modern day Earth setting for an AvP movie is because of the costs, and because we saw an "Alien Skull" in Predator 2, but that was clearly a mistake”

I disagree. The idea of the skull was not the mistake. Great potential there. The mistake was in the execution of the later AVP Movies.

[Shaolin Yautja]

Sept 21, 2018 14:56:44 GMT -5 predfang said:

“Because that to me had made me felt that I had completely been cheated and lied to by the studios, producers, directors, etc.'s excuses of how they couldn't properly make an AvP movie set in outer space from the very beginning.”

This is a very good point. AVP should be set in space, preferably in the future, and with Colonial Marines. Predators showed us that that could have been done easily. So it was not money that prevented that from occurring, but incompetence, and a lack of imagination.

“I think the biggest problems that they had used to try to justify a modern day Earth setting for an AvP movie is because of the costs, and because we saw an "Alien Skull" in Predator 2, but that was clearly a mistake”

I disagree. The idea of the skull was not the mistake. Great potential there. The mistake was in the execution of the later AVP Movies.

Having Colonial Marines is not an absolute importance. I'm going by where and when Aliens vs. Predator originated and all the stuff that had came after it. Technically they shouldn't be "canon" to the original separate Alien and Predator movies.

This is where the whole concept of AvP all began and had been made official; this is where AvP all began:





Dark Horse Presents Issues 34, 35 and 36 is the "genesis" of AvP as an official licensed product.

But it was really issue 36 when the first time in history that we see both actually engage each other face to face.

And as you can clearly see that these were all made in 1989 at the time, which is roughly around the same time frame Predator 2 had been worked on before being released in theaters in 1990.

Clearly this is the point of origin. The entire story of where it had all began was set BOTH in the distant future and in outer space.

The thing is the director, producers, etc. whomever of Predator 2 really liked the idea of Aliens vs. Predator a lot that when they heard about it and saw it, and that's how they came up with the idea of putting an Alien skull into the Trophy Case on that Predator Ship in Predator 2.
*
Trouble is, they didn't make note and pay full attention that when this whole thing AvP thing started the source had implied that Alien and Predator had first engaged and encountered each other face to face in the far distant future and in outer space, and they didn't think how it would impact or affect the future of both franchises at the time.

It's like did they forgot that their Predator 2 movie is being set in a 1997, which would still be consider modern day? Although it's a very close future since the movie is released in 1990. Which would not add up to the original source material they borrowed the idea and concept from?

From the sources I've looked into, they really only did this as nothing more than an "inside joke" and never thought it would affect the future of the franchises.

They didn't think anyone would pay attention and said he wait a second, they can't be serious about this can they? Are they implying that Predators been really hunting and collecting trophies of Aliens since 1997 or even prior to 1997?

And if we were to further dispute it the Xenomorph creature had not been discovered until the Nostromo found that Derelict Space Craft which once again is set in the distant future and in outer space. Although

Ridley Scott had somewhat retcon this with Alien Covenant, implying the very first Xenomorph Eggs originated at that time frame and period. Clearly shows his distate of what the franchises had turned into in the aftermath of a "modern day Earth" setting for an Alien vs. Predator movie, not once, but twice.

But then here's the other thing, as there still hasn't been an official AvP movie until 2004.

Everything and anything else that are official "AvP" publication or any "AvP licensed product" such as video games, comics or novels that came after that very first publication had all been set both in the distant future and in outer space thus they all stayed consistent.

Ranging from the video games, mind you there had been 7 games altogether BEFORE the first Alien vs. Predator movie came out, and they all are consistently set in outer space and in the distant future, and all of this is in chronological order btw:

• The Super Nintendo game
• The Gameboy game
• The Arcade game
• The Atari Jaguar Game
• All of the PC games (consisting of AvP Gold and AvP Classic 2000, and AvP2 and AvP2 Primal Hunt, Mac OS got ports for AvP Gold and AvP2)
• The PS2/Xbox game (AvP Extinction)

Thus everything stayed consistent as it should be and followed suit. Although the Arcade game had been set on "Earth" it was set in an apocalyptic or post-apocalyptic-like Earth setting, so it is still consistent with the distant future background set in the same time period that the US Colonial Marines existed.

Even AvP 2010 game (AvP 3) stayed consistent with the distant future setting and background, though it came out way after AvP movies.

And you can say the same for AvP CCG, at that time it was mainly just based on the first 3 Alien movies and 2 Predator movies, with an Expansion based on Resurrection.

There hasn't been anything that broke consistency and deviated with the time frames of when AvP should and would be happening, or even the location. Not even once in games, novels, comics, etc.

It was when they decided to make an AvP movie sometime in 2003 and wanted to make more money by simply refusing to follow with what had already been established by all of it's previous source materials that broke from this consistency.

The pyramid idea was good though, don't get me wrong.

They just screwed up when they couldn't figure out how they could set it in outer space on another planet just to avoid fucking up continuity and consistency and as well as validity of the franchises, regardless of whether they decided to still make that outer space and modern day 2004 or outer space in the time period of Alien (2120s) or Aliens and Alien 3 (2179 and 2180s).

Here's the complete full story of the very first AvP comic:

readcomiconline.to/Comic/Aliens-vs-Predator/Issue-1?id=120739&quality=hq

The thing I wanted to point out from this original story of where it all began is that yes, there was a human and predator alliance, and yes, unblooded Predators had to hunt Aliens and survive to prove themselves worthy of being a Yautja, and that there were NO Colonial Marines in the very first AvP comic (The novel AvP Prey is based on this very first story btw). The Colonial Marines had only been added afterwards in AvP Duel and subsequently AvP War. So having Colonial Marines in an AvP movie isn't an absolute must from the beginning, but in the far distant future is a must for consistency with all of the source materials.

Predators proved that it's still possible to set a story and movie in the franchise in Outer Space despite being "modern day", although from what I've read it's set in an unspecified year and time frame in the future, but it's not a distant future.

And according to sources that I've looked into, "The Predator" takes place BEFORE Predators.

Thus, if they had established the background story in Predators first, and then re-use that same "game preserve planet" concept for AvP later, it wouldn't deviate too much from the source materials.

And just for the record I heard it is John Davis's idea that it was personally himself that INSISTED an AvP movie had to be done and set in BOTH modern day and on Earth, thus if there's anybody to blame for the results of how AvP movies turned out, it would be mainly him.

Because if any of you remembered there was already a prior script for AvP done by Peter Brigss and that had been set both in the distant future and in outer space on another planet, thus it is consistent with the source materials and would have made much more sense.

[predfang]

Thanks for the history lesson. I thought the skull in P2 was the genesis. I have just acquired Dark Horse #36 in order to see what you are saying with regard to setting.

My first introduction to the AVP universe was AVP CCG, so while the Colonial Marines may no be necessary, I would very much like to see them included so we can see humans take on both species with peak technology. A film that mirrors the atmosphere of the CCG would be something I’d prefer.

It seems to me that Director Paul Anderson drew much inspiration for the first AVP film from the first AVP Comic AVP#1. I respect him for that reverence to the source material even if he made some choices I disagreed with. The tone of the first AVP film is based in the comics I feel while the AVPR film’s tone is much like Predator 2 and Aliens. Does AVP get a bad wrap from fans because they think it should be something that it’s not? like it’s a comic book film not science fiction horror film like the classics? That’s something I’ve always wondered.

One more thing I have always wondered is what counts as “canon” anymore. Is it everything (games, comics, films) or is it just the films themselves? If I remember right, Predators ignored Predator 2 and the AVP Films but The Predator referenced them. Is there a coherent canon?

[Shaolin Yautja]

Sept 22, 2018 16:11:40 GMT -5 predfang said:

Thanks for the history lesson. I thought the skull in P2 was the genesis. I have just acquired Dark Horse #36 in order to see what you are saying with regard to setting.

My first introduction to the AVP universe was AVP CCG, so while the Colonial Marines may no be necessary, I would very much like to see them included so we can see humans take on both species with peak technology. A film that mirrors the atmosphere of the CCG would be something I’d prefer.

I think that's one of the reasons or rather, "excuses" why the studio wasn't willing to do it in outer space and follow the video games. They expect it to cost more money to produce, etc. Unwilling to a risk bigger filming budget. I'm sure that is why we never saw another Alien movie with Colonial Marines after Aliens. Perhaps this will eventually change and become a real official production, but for now we presume they had absolutely refused to do so. And until we see another Alien movie with Colonial Marines again I very much doubt we'll ever get a proper AvP movie with them.

Sept 22, 2018 16:11:40 GMT -5 predfang said:

It seems to me that Director Paul Anderson drew much inspiration for the first AVP film from the first AVP Comic AVP#1. I respect him for that reference to the source material even if he made some choices I disagreed with. The tone of the first AVP film is based in the comics I feel while the AVPR film’s tone is much like Predator 2 and Aliens. Does AVP get a bad wrap from fans because they think it should be something that it’s not? like it’s a comic book film not science fiction horror film like the classics? That’s something I’ve always wondered.

The biggest problem is they had mistaken the Alien skull as being legit and "canon" instead of an inside joke. Thus they decided to try and bridge the gap between the present modern day and the distant future of the Alien movies. From my very own perspective, that's where they went wrong to begin with and I find it unnecessary.

The execution of the alliance of Lex and Scar was poorly done and felt forced and awkward. The way it was done in the original comics with it's leading human character was better.

There's also a brief alliance between a Colonial Marine and a blooded Predator against a Predalien in AvP Duel comics story. It bridges the first AvP story and AvP War.

I think the majority of the fanbase did not like this concept as it cheapens things and since it had already been done in comics it lacks originality. Perhaps they could have gone an alternate route and did a completely different second half of that movie without an alliance and maybe things would have turned out differently. Whether that would be better or worse, it all depends on how one looks at it.

The other problem with the movie is that unlike in the comics, the "unblooded" noobs Predators actually had a "blooded" veteran Predator supervising their entire first alien hunt.

Thus that explains why those "noob" Predators got slaughtered fairly quickly by one alien. Which I've heard many Predator fans had whined and complained about a lot. But too many probably didn't read the original story to figure out what the significant difference was in regards to the Predator hunting party in the comics and the movie.

In the movies, all 3 "unblooded" Predators go into the Pyramid completely unsupervised by any "blooded" veteran Predators. "Wolf" from AvP-R is an example of a blooded veteran, same for the original 2 Predators.

Had those 3 predators been supervised by a "blooded" veteran predator, he probably would have stepped in immediately saved at least one of those noobs were in danger. I also find that it is completely inconsistent of how all 3 of them worked together so well when dealing with the humans but by the time they face the Aliens, they just seemed to be completely reckless and careless and didn't watch each other's backs and applied the same kind of team effort they did when fighting the humans. It's like they just charged in recklessly and blindly going after those Plasma Casters without pulling a full recon and scan for any possible nearby Xenomorphs that can pose a huge threat and ambush them.

And just for the record, that whole thing with one Alien slaughtering 2 or more Predators DID HAPPEN in all 3 PC games, even if one were to argue and dispute that as non-canon. The 5th Alien mission in the first AvP pc game, the Alien's last mission in AvP2, and the last m Alien mission in AvP 2010.

Now whether Paul Anderson himself knew this or not and drew influence from the games or if it was rather a complete coincidence, I really have no idea.

"like it’s a comic book film not science fiction horror film like the classics?"

Precisely. They butchered the original source materials and added their own materials and content, but it just didn't meet the expectations of the majority of the fanbase and community. Newer generation of AvP fans seemed to like it because it's fresh and new to them if they never watched any of the original films and thus are unaware and not impacted in the same way. Had they found a loop hole and set the whole pyramid in outer space on another planet despite still taking place in modern day, like how they figured out a way to make that happen with Predators, then maybe that would have mitigated a substantial amount of problems with continuity and most of, if not all inconsistencies.

And we would not end up with an even bigger mess with AvP-R.

It just isn't up to standard with the originals, but it shouldn't be a surprise that it isn't. Too many upset and angry fans blamed Paul Anderson, when it's really John Davis's idea from the beginning of production for insisting on the modern day Earth setting approach which is why we end up with what we have now. He really did it for cutting costs to produce the movie, and quite possibly that Davis had decided to use that Alien skull as a justification that Predators had hunted aliens in modern times before and during 1997.

But I'm glad Ridley Scott retconned all of those things in Alien Covenant though. Thus it AvP wouldn't be canon to the original Alien films.

Sept 22, 2018 16:11:40 GMT -5 predfang said:

One more thing I have always wondered is what counts as “canon” anymore. Is it everything (games, comics, films) or is it just the films themselves? If I remember right, Predators ignored Predator 2 and the AVP Films but The Predator referenced them. Is there a coherent canon?

At this point there isn't really one anymore. As I said, putting the Alien skull in Predator 2 because Predator 2 is set in 1997 had already been inconsistent with the source material's time frames, background, setting. But it's also because it wasn't meant to be serious and supposed to just be a nod to the comics and an inside joke.

I'd have to say that AvP itself is entirely a separate "canon" of its own. None of them are directly a sequel to any of the original Alien films.

The original stories and comics and their sequels can be the only thing that is considered as AvP's cannon in particularly because they had been coherent between themselves with their plot, characters, etc. being direct and consistently related to each other. Specifically AvP, AvP Duel, AvP War, AvP Blood Time and AvP Three World War.

Also the same for the first 3 novels for AvP because they had been based on their respective comics version, although AvP Hunter's Planet wasn't based on any AvP comic. It's still a separate and distinct "canon" of its own despite having consistent characters and stories.

The video games also have their own separate and distinct "canon" because none of the AvP games are absolute direct sequels or prequels to each other's plots, characters, etc.

The same goes for AvP CCG for drawing all the various concepts from the original films and as well as the comics. It should be its own distict "canon". And it ignores timelines since characters from all the movies can be used, regardless.